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Keep dads out of preschool potty duty - UPDATED

"You don't have to write it down. But if I find out a strange man has pulled my daughter's panties down in the bathroom, she will no longer be enrolled here."

I was in a meeting with the director of the preschool who had just said they can't give it to me in writing, but they would try to accomodate my request. You see, I made an excruciating oversight last spring when I shopped for preschools for my then barely two-year-old. School! I thought. Learning! Colors! Finger paint! Through the open houses and school tours, all I saw were smiling happy (female) teachers, adorably disheveled toddlers and fun-seeming other moms. Cool, right? What I never considered were the logistics of the bathroom.

This particular school has a culture of its own. It's a positive atmosphere, open-minded, progressive. "Not stuck in the 1950's" someone said to me yesterday. This is a place where dads are made to feel welcome, where they are seen as equal and involved parents. This is a place where two-dad families are ushered in with open arms. Rad. I love the love. I'm sure all the parents are wonderful.

And just in case, the extensive vetting process includes a criminal background check and fingerprinting to make sure of it because, you see, parents have to put in time in the classroom  - "rotating assisting duty" which includes taking tots to the bathroom . For two-year-olds, that means a heavy hand in the pulling up and down of undies and the occasional wipe. That could be any assisting parent, like, say, a dad. Gulp.

The facts all sprang together at once on Tuesday. I suppose last spring I knew dads could be assisting in the classroom, and I knew toddlers have to go potty, but I naturally (and falsely) assumed the women would be taking them. You know, the staff. Or the moms? Surely women took the girls to the bathroom and cleaned their accidents, right? As I dropped Bee off on her first day this week and took one last peek in the door, I saw a man I'd never met and the whole icky, sticky situation fell on me like a lap full of spaghetti. While I'm at home kicking it up over laundry, my daughter is a mile away MAYBE having some dude I've never met cleaning her butt. I popped into the school office and my suspicions were confirmed: we don't fit in here.

I'm not trying to criminalize these guys. I love men. I married one! As a matter of fact, I pick and choose when I'm a feminist because I'm not down with man-bashing. However, we don't live in a world where child-molesting is equal-opportunity . 99% of sexual predators are men, only 1% are women and girls are over twice as likely as boys to be sexually abused.

Perhaps when my daughter is older and can better communicate we can talk about who is okay to touch what, but for my two-year-old, I want the clear idea to be "men don't go anywhere near that part of my body". Not the friend's dad at school, not the friend's dad at our house while mommy is busy hosting a BBQ. Not the new strange man in class, not the new strange man anywhere.

I know I'm being sexist. The feminist, progressive, modern, cool kid perspective is "we teach children appropriate touching and that men can be trusted, not feared". I understand that. I understand the other moms at the school may see it that way. I understand I could be wrong and we're not in the "socio-economic risk demograhic". I get it, but I don't feel it.

What I feel is a lifetime of empathy for the damage sexual abuse can cause. This is my daughter. If something were to happen to her, there are no second chances, no do-overs. She and I would have to mine through the muck and I can't live with going against my gut if I put her in that situation.

And is it really fair to the men to be required to take a little girl to the bathroom when her mom is some lady you don't even know who's paranoid of molesters? Yeah, I'm sure it's a real delight for those guys. And what about legally? Say a little girl does accuse him of something - what recourse does he have? If I were a man, I'd run so far from that bathroom, you'd see smoke.

So. For me and my family, no dudes in the bathroom stall. I'd rather be wrong than find out if I'm right. Hopefully we can stay at the school. She does love her finger paints.

 UPDATE OCTOBER 2

Happy outcome! The director called me this morning to confirm the preschool will honor my request that only female caregivers will take Bianca to the bathroom. YAY. But wait, that's not all! The executive board also decided this issue is worthy of a policy change. They formed a task committee to research standard practices at other preschools and will institute a change based on that and other findings. It sounds like they completely see my point of view and were baffled themselves they never addresses this before. She even laughed, "these are the growing pains of a hippy dippy co-op".

 I'm so excited! I actually feel like I made a little difference in the world. High fives for mama bears, right? That stress headache I had for two days was worth it.

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  • I 10000% agree with you. Modern day or not, some strange man should not be wiping the rear end of your daughter. It's just not right and goes against everything we're taught about how to protect our children. I, honestly, would be uncomfortable with this situation and my son, so I can only imagine how strange it would be with my daughter. It is so difficult to let our children grow up and move into new phases, like school, where they could fall victim to some terrifying situations.

  • In reply to mivie0513:

    I just wish the school had been clear about all this. I certainly learned my lesson - NEVER ASSUME!

  • I think it's an interesting question, and I have to be honest I can't decide where I land. On one hand I completely see what you're saying and on the other hand, for me, meh. In general, unless the parent creeped me out I *think* I'd be ok with it. But we're not in preschool yet, so maybe I'll change my tune when I'm actually face to face with this. I asked my husband what he thought, and he actually didn't really care so much about the gender of the parent, but was completely out of sorts about the thought of any parent taking our daughter to the rest room. He thinks it's fine for parents to come in for storytime or to pass out crackers at snack time, but things like bathroom time should be left to the teachers. So essentially he would rather have a male preschool teacher doing bathroom duty, over a female parent. I'm on the fence with this one too, ha!

  • In reply to Bugsy1211:

    I guess I was "meh" about it too until I was actually standing there, looking at a strange guy in the classroom and about to actually hand over my daughter. It just never clicked before that.

    I'm waiting on the executive board's reaction I guess and the director is supposed to talk to the teachers. I'm kind of pissed to feel like an outcast right now.

    I'm actually starting to get pissed about all kinds of things, like why are they putting the feelings of these adults before the safety of my child? If I have to leave the school, where will she go since classes fill in the spring? And can we get our money back? It was fucking $4k to send her there and I'm hit with this bs.

  • I think you should trust your gut on this one. I know that my husband would be super creeped out to have to do something like that with anyone other than his own children. I think dads that are okay with it need to rethink it as well. It sucks that you didn't know before hand too. I hope it works out for you.

  • In reply to zoomama:

    Their whole thing is they don't want to offend the gay dads by telling them who they can and can't help in the bathroom. I don't care if the man is gay, straight or Santa Claus. I don't want his mitts on my kid's skivvies!

  • I had to register just to respond to this post. I totally agree with you! I have boys and would not want a strange man "helping" them in the bathroom. It seems like they could deal with this so simply, without laying out the discrimination card. No parent volunteers participating in bathroom help, possibly with the addition no one alone with children in the bathroom (two adults at all times, to make sure nothing skivy is going on). I'm amazed they don't have a policy like this in the place now. It seems like a huge liability issue. Like you, I think about this stuff though, are other parents not? The world is too scary.

  • I think the other parents are assuming like I was that the women help the girls, if not all the kids. Or maybe they don't care? I ran it past one mom and she seemed really caught off guard.

    It annoys me that the school is challenging me like, "shouldn't you teach your child that men can be trusted?" instead of letting me parent the way I want to.

    The whole thing is turning into a clusterfuck. I'll know more Monday.

  • You might want to seriously think about withdrawing her from the school. If you don't feel that she is in a safe environment, then you will spend the whole time she's at school feeling anxious. Is that the experience you want for yourself or your daughter?

    I say this with some sadness since my daughter attended that same school and had a truly wonderful experience. You have to do what's right for your family, though. Not what everyone else thinks is right or the best or whatever.

    She's only two, and will probably be fine waiting until next year to attend preschool. You will have a lot more options at that point -- including CPS where teachers are forbidden from helping kids in the bathroom at all. They have to wipe themselves and change their own clothes if they have an accident. Sounds like you'd be a lot more comfortable in that situation.

  • In reply to christinewhitley:

    It's not that she's not ready for preschool, it's that this school's bathroom situation is a perfect storm I'm not not keen on: men, alone, toilet facilities separated from classroom by two brick walls and a hallway, school putting men's feelings over her safety etc. If it were one of those things, it actually might be different.

    I may indeed end up withdrawing, pending another meeting and more info this week. I'll keep this thread posted. You would have thought something this huge (and unique) of a situation they might have made known before people like me waste time and money. I get a little more furious every time I think about it.

    I'm glad to hear you had success though.

  • I would think that the gay dads would be just as concerned about men helping their daughters in the bathroom. Just because they are gay doesn't mean that other dads who might help in the bathroom are as well.
    I also think the school would recognize that, yes, not all men are untrustworthy and that not all men need to be feared, BUT when teaching a 2 year old (or even my 5 year old) about inappropriate touching, it is easier for them to understand that no men should be touching her down there. Kids that young don't know how to tell the good guys from the bad guys (and adult women can't always tell either).
    The school needs to handle the issue better. Maybe only teachers or aides can do bathroom duties. It is safer than random parents doing it. A criminal background check is great, but how many sexual predators out there don't have a criminal record yet?
    Go with your gut and don't back down.

  • I've said before that I totally agree with you on all points. You stated this wonderfully. My husband said the same thing, that he would never dare be alone with a strange child, just because of the potential of false accusations. He even said that if he ever found himself home with Kira and a friend of hers that he would sit in one spot with a camera on him at all times until I came home LOL.

    I wouldn't be comfortable if the bathroom was down the hall away from the main classroom either. One thing we really like about Kira's preschool is that the bathroom is a little room right off the main classroom, and the door is never shut and no adult, even a woman, is alone in this wee cubicle of a bathroom with a single child.

  • UPDATE!!!

    I'm going to update the post as well, but I'm THRILLED that . ..

    a) They agreed to honor my request ASAP so I can feel good about dropping her off tomorrow and . .

    b) They are revamping the school's policy! The executive committee decided it was a worthy issue and formed an investigative team to figure out what the details should be.

    HUGE victory! They even apologized to me that this hadn't been dealt with sooner and attributed it to growing pains of being a small parent-run co-op.

    YAYAYAYAYAYY!!!!!!!!!!

  • I feel you on this one. When my oldest daughter was in a home daycare, the lady got married. I came in to pick her up one day and the new husband was changing her diaper. Anyone with a baby girl knows that sometimes a BM can get in other spaces and there he was with his hand in all crevices. I nearly blacked out I was soo angry. Needless to say I took her out of that daycare. I must add that these are people from my sisters church so we did know them but still.... I DO NOT WANT SOME MAN's HAND IN MY CHILDS A$$!!

  • In reply to Dawnn:

    I toyed with the idea of nannying a while back and I remember a mom was uncomfortable that my husband would even be home one day a week. She didn't like the idea of him in them house and her kid was a boy who would have been with me the whole time.

    I can certainly understand why you were mad - I would have been too and we are NOT alone.

  • Jenna Myers Karvunidis.
    Your claimed, but unsourced statistic - that 99% of sexual predators are men, only 1% are women is an egregiously false, and hateful lie. And when we discuss abuse of children, as your article focuses on, then a factually backed up claim would be that women are the world's champions at abusing children.

    The US Department of health and Human Services show mothers abusing children at more than double the rate of fathers. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm08/figure3_6.htm

  • In reply to Johntheother:

    Thank you! I hate hearing that made up 99 - 1 percent statistic. Knowing the the author of this just pulled it from nowhere, except maybe jezebel.com, really angers me. People just don't do the research they should anymore.

    Regarding the rest of the issue, I don't believe that the gender of a person should bar them from helping children. What about the male children that get helped by female teachers? I guarantee you that the boys won't get the same new treatment that the girl students get.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to Johntheother:

    THANK YOU JTO, I was just about to point out this woman as an obvious liar. I notice how she failed to cite ANY source backing her claims while you have a legitimate source. I bet our comments will be quickly erased and I have thusly screen captured your comment on this posting.

  • In reply to André Berry:

    Liar? That MEN account for nearly all documented sexual abuse? You are lying to yourself if you believe anything different.

  • fb_avatar

    No I'm not lying and the several links posted by those in opposition to your tired post back us on this. Not only that the source you posted is partly or fully run by feminists such as Susan de Silva. We know how they fabricate statistics for proffit.

    I also notice you repeatedly use the same tired shaming ad hominem attack on everyone that legitimately dissasembles your argument. The form factor of this logical fallacy is as follows:

    Why are you fighting for men to get into little girls panties"

    Grow up and learn how to argue with logic, not emotions and psycho babble.

  • In reply to André Berry:

    Again, why are you guys trying to change my mind? IT WON'T CHANGE. You may use perfectly sound logic, you may use unsound logic, you may bully me, you may scare me, you may send hate mail to my house but I will never, ever change my mind on this.

  • In reply to Johntheother:

    http://childmolestationprevention.org/

  • Have you actually read the link you just posted?

    Quote: "Did you know that most children who are sexually abused, are abused by a family member or close friend? Did you know that "stranger danger," by comparison, is quite rare?"

    Your link does not support your argument. It in fact support Johntheother's.

  • fb_avatar
    In reply to pgarrett:

    Of course she didn't read it. She just entered "child sexual abuse" into Google and linked the first website she came to. She was relying on our laziness to get away with her lies.

    Taken from her link: "In reports of daycare workers who are abusers, women account for 40 percent."

    pwned

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    Again, we're not talking about violent abuse, we're talking about SEXUAL abuse and it's normally caused by men. It's a fact. Get over it.

  • fb_avatar

    Children pulled out of burning buildings, whisked out of the way of speeding cars are also normally caused by men.

    Even though all these men have been background checked, will have limited time with children you still want to believe that even though they have children of their own they will sexually abuse your precious little monster?

    The chance that any of these men are predators is so small that it's not even calculable. Your apprehension is based entirely on bigotry.

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    What is your angle here? Are you hoping to change my mind? Hoping to manipulate me by calling me a bigot in hopes I will be embarrassed? You will not shame me into failing my daughter. You're wasting your time.

  • fb_avatar

    "Again, we're not talking about violent abuse, we're talking about SEXUAL abuse and it's normally caused by men. It's a fact. Get over it."

    I wasn't talking about violent abuse either. I took that quote from the website you cited. It has to do with sexual abuse of children.

    Here I'll post it again since you aren't that bright.

    "In reports of daycare workers who are abusers, women account for 40 percent."

    By this statistic the females are almost as likely to sexually abuse your daughter as the males. Oh my!

  • In reply to pgarrett:

    These parents in the classroom get to know the kids. They become very familiar with them. This is not a "stranger in the park" situation. The problem is the dads are strangers to ME, because they volunteer in there on different days than I do.

  • Then maybe you should put forth the extra effort to qualm your unwarranted fear. Or just go back to watching Lifetime.

  • In reply to NavyVet2011:

    So now you've made the leap that I got my ideas from watching television. You don't have to answer, just think this is your head, but where exactly are you getting your ideas?

    People close to me and so many in life life have suffered sexual abuse at the hands of a MAN. Not women. Men. I'm not alone, they were not alone, this is the world and you better live in it and turn off *your* fluffy TV.

  • In reply to pgarrett:

    Read my response below. These dads in the classroom are not strangers, they get to know the kids. Even if they're cool (and I'm sure they are) we have friends over all the time who are familiar with our children.

    I want NO MAN in my daughter's pants. You will never convince me otherwise. I don't see why you are trying.

  • fb_avatar

    By the 2 people that have responded to you on your link. They've both used your own source to debunk you. before that the other's have posted several other sources with contrary information. Do you see the irony of the scene?

  • In reply to André Berry:

    Apparently you did not read my reply.

    Look, I will never back down and I can show you 100 other mothers who agree with me. Take your idealism elsewhere. I live in the world as it is, not fantasy.

  • fb_avatar

    I read your reply all right I don't care if you found 1,000 mothers to agree with you that makes 1,000 bigots who are WRONG not right.

    Your statistics are a fantasy and therefore you do live in a fantasy world. Do fairies land on your window sill?

    BTW the quote Jean Valjean gave you WAS talking about sexual abuse. I'll back the quote up some to clarify for you since you can't seem to research properly:

    "However, female sexual abusers do present a problem. In reports of daycare workers who are abusers, women account for 40 percent."

  • In reply to André Berry:

    So 1,000 mothers who feel in their gut that something is not right should be politically correct to appease a bunch of bullying men and use their children as the casualties?

    From that comment alone I can tell you're not a father.

  • fb_avatar

    This is a logical fallacy to try to parallel 1,000 women in agreement with being correct or right.

    My point is a feeling is not a fact and a majority does not conclude a right or wrong, FACTS do. The fact is your statistics are false and you only have a handful of people here agreeing with you. the number opposing is drastically growing and they bring gifts of facts and sources with them. Isn't that neat.

    BTW nobody is trying to convert you, we're simply calling you out. We already know feminists are brainwashed beyond repair.

  • In reply to André Berry:

    Run your wheels into the dirt, I'm not changing my mind.

  • fb_avatar

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/jenna-myers-karvunidis-placed-on-offenders-registry/

  • Ms. Karvunidis,

    I am very saddened to see what you have written here. You are quite right, you are sexist and your statistics are not even remotely accurate. You fear men in general, with only a Lifetime movie of the week vague idea of how men are in reality. This is misandry, pure and simple. Furthermore, it is rather disturbing to see the number of people agreeing with you here. I hope you read some of the comments here http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/li325/only_women_should_help_in_the_potty_dads_might_be/ that might help you understand why you are being a bigot.

    I hope that you one day see that who you think men are, is not who men really are. Your'e living in a dream world of bitter hate.

  • In reply to Jacob:

    I don't give a FUCK about being a bigot. I care about my children and protecting them so quit trying to get in kids' pants, you pervert.

  • fb_avatar

    I am not sure how you got from "Please do not use unsourced statistics to bash men" to "trying to get in kids' pants.".

  • In reply to Drew Hamilton:

    Sure fighting a case here, aren't you? Why do you care so much? Go find another "cause" because I will NEVER change my mind. I was right and I know it and the school backs me up.

  • fb_avatar

    The school is terrified of busy body feminist bitches ruining their business by making false accusations about them. They'll probably wash your car for you too if they think you won't go to the news media and tell more lies.

    You've already accused people of being perverts and trying to get in your kid's pants. I'd say they are right in their fear of you.

    Who knows how low you will sink?

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    If you think I am the lowest rung in society (mother, preschool teacher, community activist who likes to sew and bake) you have a screw loose.

  • fb_avatar

    Communist activist would be an improvement on what you are.

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    You're not a father. You don't get a vote. End of story.

  • You're a spreader of hatred and lies!
    And a bigot with a soapbox!

    Yes, you are easily the lowest of the low.

  • fb_avatar

    Yeah, that's not gonna work here. This isn't some public space where a woman cry of assault will bring white knights to your aid.

    We're all equal here and you have to either put up or shut up.

    And it's pretty clear you aren't up to the task. Bigots like you should be hounded and ridiculed.

    Take it like a man Jenna.

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    Are you drinking? You make no sense.

  • fb_avatar

    "I don't give a FUCK about being a bigot. I care about my children and protecting them so quit trying to get in kids' pants, you pervert."

    I hope you don't have sons. It would be like a member of the KKK raising black children. You will only instill in them a hatred and loathing of themselves. You are unfit as a human and a mother.

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    Ha, nice one. Funny how you psycho dads keep trying to make a gender issue into a race issue. Take your pills, honey.

  • But still no real response to the comment? He's trying to relate his side of view in a way you might understand. Please, try to take a breath and answer these comments rationally rather than resorting to name-calling and falling back on "go to bed" or "Take your pills." If you legitimately think you have a point, you should have no problem dealing with people questioning your *now* public belief system.

  • The scariest thing about this story is the fact that this mother believes she had made a difference in the world, and that difference she believes will keep her baby safe from sexual predators. Mommy, please please do some hard research, you are in for one hell of a nightmare reality check regarding sexual abuse and children. I am a clinical therapist with a background in working with survivors of child sexual abuse. It makes my heart sink when I hear this sort of false sense of security, especially when it is based in misinformation. How will you ever forgive yourself if you daughter falls pray to a molester. Women as perpetrators of sexual abuse, abuse longer, and have more victims, and tend to be more violent than their male counterparts. Please don't ever be fooled into thinking you made you child safe.

  • In reply to johnthatsme:

    I don't think she has been sent into a false sense of security- she is aware that abuse happens. Yes women abuse but since 1 out of 4 women are abused and it is usually by men she is just starting early looking out for her child. I'm sure that she will be the kind of mom who talks about good touch and bad touch by anyone when the time is right. There is nothing wrong with her starting where she can make a difference for other children. There isn't any check done on these other parents that are taking kids to the bathroom. I don't think that should be allowed.

  • I had to stop reading this, it was making me sick to my stomach....she has two kids....thats two new clients down the road. This is pathetically sad.

  • In reply to johnthatsme:

    You make me sick to my stomach you pervert. Why are you fighting such a battle for men to get in little girls' drawers? SICKO. Stay off my blog. And DON'T call me "mommy".

  • fb_avatar

    "You make me sick to my stomach you pervert. Why are you fighting such a battle for men to get in little girls' drawers? SICKO. Stay off my blog. And DON'T call me "mommy"."

    I can think of other things to call you but I wouldn't want to disparage those things by associating them with you.

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    So you're personally angry at me for preferring strange men don't wipe my daughter's butt. What next? Outrage over how we do laundry in our house?

  • Actually, femininity is an excellent protection against true molestation claims. Women abusers are in the minority, but the split is about 75%(m):25%(f), not 99:1.

    Furthermore: "A surprising 86% of survivors of sexual abuse were not believed when they said the abuser was a woman. "

    citation:

    The Ultimate Taboo: Child Sexual abuse by women

    The Sexual Abuse by Women of Children and Teenagers

    Summary of UK TV programme - Panorama - BBC1 - 10 pm Monday, October 6th, 1997

    http://www.canadiancrc.com/Newspaper_Articles/BBC_Child_sexual_abuse_by_women_06OCT97.aspx

  • fb_avatar

    While I understand your concerns, you are being extremely sexist and quoting inflated, falsified figures in relation to sexual abuse and pedophiles (men vs. women offenders).

    Studies have shown that one in six men reported being sexually abused as children, 40% of them by women. Daycare molestation cases: 60% were by women. In sexual assault cases in schools and colleges, 43% were female offenders.

    When you quote "99% of sexual predators are men", I'm sure you're referring to the "99% of rape cases are perpetrated by men" figure. This is heavily skewed due to the FBI's definition of rape.

    "Carnal knowledge is defined by Black’s Law Dictionary, 6th ed. as “the act of a man having sexual bodily connections with a woman; sexual intercourse.” There is carnal knowledge if there is the slightest penetration of the sexual organ of the female (vagina) by the sexual organ of the male (penis).

    Agencies must not classify statutory rape, incest, or other sex offenses, i.e. forcible sodomy, sexual assault with an object, forcible fondling, etc. as Forcible Rape

    By definition, sexual attacks on males are excluded from the rape category and must be classified as assaults or other sex offenses depending on the nature of the crime and the extent of injury."

    Female sex offenders primarily target children and adolescents.

    You might want to check your facts more carefully before quoting them and/or judging others based on them.

    Source: http://female-offenders.com/Safehouse/2010/09/toptenmythsaboutfemalesexoffenders.html

  • You are incorrect regarding dads being unfit to help out in the classroom and are only reinforcing the wrong sort of stereotypes for both men and women. This is a loss for gender equality.

    I'm not going to tell you how to teach your children. AND YOU should not be allowed to tell other parents in that class, or the teachers in that class how they teach their children.

    First, reexamine your discomfort with male parents helping out in this way in the classroom --for instance, how would you feel about male teachers handling this? IF you are still uncomfortable, then take your kids out. The school is doing the right open-minded thing.

  • In reply to Indiana Jones:

    I didn't say unfit to help in the CLASSROOM, I said the BATHROOM.

    If women (and little girls) are supposed to be so comfortable going to the bathroom around men, how come the genders have separate bathrooms?

  • To protect innocent people from bigots like you?

  • In reply to NavyVet2011:

    Right, the genders have separate bathrooms to protect people from kind, nurturing mothers. What is this? Psycho Man Rights United? I'm sure it's a rough road out there being a man and all. ROLLS EYES.

  • Lol at least you didn't resort to name calling with this comment. Oh wait...

  • fb_avatar

    "If women (and little girls) are supposed to be so comfortable going to the bathroom around men, how come the genders have separate bathrooms?"

    Have you seen the lines outside women's bathrooms? Besides, women do things in the bathroom that is best kept to themselves.

    Just sayin'.

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    So then we agree. Great. Thank you for seeing things my way. Women in the bathroom with girls! Excellent! Now go to bed.

  • fb_avatar

    You claim to love men and cite your marriage as proof, but you must realize that having found an exception does not negate the fact that the first time your faith in men in general (outside your exceptions) was, you assumed they were pedophiles. You did not likewise treat the mothers the same way, or even mention concerns of mothers taking boys into class. In fact, you seem to find it perfectly acceptable for women to help boys in the potty. Furthermore, you are perpetuating the men are pedophile mentality. Perhaps if you had concerns over any parent on the task, you would come off so bad, but you clearly were sexist, and you clearly don't love men, you only love the exceptions that you have found. not the same thing.

  • In reply to Mark Neil:

    Again, not giving a fuck if I'm sexist. I'm right.

  • How can you even say that? You've said yourself you've never met the man. You're going purely on the fact that male = evil. Don't force your preconceived notions on other kids, least of all your own children.

  • In reply to NavyVet2011:

    Don't force my preconceived notions on my own children? Um, that's exactly what parents do. I am the guidance for my children. We don't live in an ideal world. It is my job to help my children navigate the world as it is and I won't stop just because a bunch of psycho dad bullied me on my blog.

  • *dads

  • fb_avatar

    "Again, not giving a fuck if I'm sexist. I'm right."

    Do you kiss your daughter with that mouth?

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    Please don't pretend to have concern for my child. I'd give my life for her and you'd like to use her as a social experiment.

    Interesting how now you're trying to shame me with my language. It won't work. I will never back down.

    I do have to go to sleep now, who knows what you freaks will write by morning.

  • I've taken the liberty of rewinding your comment to 50 years ago, and have put this together for your pleasure and reflection:

    "You don't have to write it down. But if I find out a strange negro has pulled my daughter's panties down in the bathroom, she will no longer be enrolled here."

    I was in a meeting with the director of the preschool who had just said they can't give it to me in writing, but they would try to accomodate my request. You see, I made an excruciating oversight last spring when I shopped for preschools for my then barely two-year-old. School! I thought. Learning! Colors! Finger paint! Through the open houses and school tours, all I saw were smiling happy (white) teachers, adorably disheveled toddlers and fun-seeming other whites. Cool, right? What I never considered were the logistics of the bathroom.

    This particular school has a culture of its own. It's a positive atmosphere, open-minded, progressive. "Not stuck in the 1950's" someone said to me yesterday. This is a place where blacks are made to feel welcome, where they are seen as equal and involved parents. This is a place where two-black families are ushered in with open arms. Rad. I love the love. I'm sure all the parents are wonderful.

    And just in case, the extensive vetting process includes a criminal background check and fingerprinting to make sure of it because, you see, parents have to put in time in the classroom - "rotating assisting duty" which includes taking tots to the bathroom . For two-year-olds, that means a heavy hand in the pulling up and down of undies and the occasional wipe. That could be any assisting parent, like, say, a black. Gulp.

    The facts all sprang together at once on Tuesday. I suppose last spring I knew blacks could be assisting in the classroom, and I knew toddlers have to go potty, but I naturally (and falsely) assumed the whites would be taking them. You know, the staff. Or the white people? Surely whites took the girls to the bathroom and cleaned their accidents, right? As I dropped Bee off on her first day this week and took one last peek in the door, I saw a negro I'd never met and the whole icky, sticky situation fell on me like a lap full of spaghetti. While I'm at home kicking it up over laundry, my daughter is a mile away MAYBE having some nigger I've never met cleaning her butt. I popped into the school office and my suspicions were confirmed: we don't fit in here.

    I'm not trying to criminalize these races. I love blacks. I married one! As a matter of fact, I pick and choose when I'm a racist because I'm not down with negro-bashing. However, we don't live in a world where child-molesting is equal-opportunity . 99% of sexual predators are blacks, only 1% are whites and girls are over twice as likely as boys to be sexually abused.

    Perhaps when my daughter is older and can better communicate we can talk about who is okay to touch what, but for my two-year-old, I want the clear idea to be "blacks don't go anywhere near that part of my body". Not the black friend at school, not the black friend at our house while mommy is busy hosting a BBQ. Not the new strange negro in class, not the new strange negro anywhere.

    I know I'm being racist. The non–racist, progressive, modern, cool kid perspective is "we teach children appropriate touching and that blacks can be trusted, not feared". I understand that. I understand the other whites at the school may see it that way. I understand I could be wrong and we're not in the "socio-economic risk demographic". I get it, but I don't feel it.

    What I feel is a lifetime of empathy for the damage sexual abuse can cause. This is my daughter. If something were to happen to her, there are no second chances, no do-overs. She and I would have to mine through the muck and I can't live with going against my gut if I put her in that situation.

    And is it really fair to the blacks to be required to take a little girl to the bathroom when her white mom is some bigot you don't even know who's paranoid of other races? Yeah, I'm sure it's a real delight for those negros. And what about legally? Say a little girl does accuse them of something - what recourse do they have? If I were a negro, I'd run so far from that bathroom, you'd see smoke.
    So. For me and my family, no niggers in the bathroom stall. I'd rather be wrong than find out if I'm right. Hopefully we can stay at the school. She does love her finger paints.

    UPDATE OCTOBER 2

    Happy outcome! The director called me this morning to confirm the preschool will honor my request that only white caregivers will take Bianca to the bathroom. YAY. But wait, that's not all! The executive board also decided this issue is worthy of a policy change. They formed a task committee to research standard practices at other preschools and will institute a change based on that and other findings. It sounds like they completely see my point of view and were baffled themselves they never addresses this before. She even laughed, "these are the growing pains of a hippy dippy co-op".

    I'm so excited! I actually feel like I made a little difference in the world. High fives for bigots everywhere, right? That stress headache I had for two days was worth it.

  • In reply to Kris:

    You'll notice Kris, she's only commenting on the easy comments. I for one loved the satire in this comment and appreciate the candor used. Keep up the good fight for equal rights.

  • In reply to NavyVet2011:

    If you were intelligent you would see I am responding to nearly all of the comments, they show up stacked below and not under each one for some reason (not my doing).

    I 100% believe in what I wrote and I stand by everything I say.

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    "I 100% believe in what I wrote and I stand by everything I say."

    So did Hitler.

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    In reply to Jean Valjean:

    *Slow Clap*

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    In reply to Jean Valjean:

    Jean Valjean, you're a patriot bro. It's clear she's a clueless whacko feminists who can't even research her own sources correctly arguing till death a statistic isn't on sexual assault when reading a sentence back it clearly is. I've had my fun destroying her in debate. I'm done got other things to do, lol.

  • In reply to NavyVet2011:

    The thing that really blows my mind is this:

    In her world, men go out, find a mate, get married, have a child or two, and then wait for the opportunity to have a care day at their child's preschool so they can MOLEST CHILDREN IN OPEN STALL BATHROOMS.

    I'm sure nobody would figure out their scheme, what with there being teachers constantly around at one of the most ludicrous places to try and commit a crime like this.

    But hey, it must be the world we live in because 83% of women's intuitions about statistics like these are 100% right 48% of the time in 96% of cases. It's scientific. See? FACTUAL FIGURES!

  • In reply to Kris:

    You completely missed my point. I don't want my daughter learning that it's "normal" for a friend's dad to take down her drawers. WE know, as adults that he's a parent assisting in the classroom that day. But the other friend's dad who has no business doing such thing won't raise a red flag with her if she's used to the bizarre school protocol.

  • Thank you for replying on this.

    I would think that you'd want to teach your daughter that it's not OK for any person to take down her drawers, man or woman, unless it's for appropriate situations like bathroom duty. Ascribing a sort of sexual predation to men ONLY because they are men is a dangerous precedent that would allow a female child molester to have a much easier time committing the same crime.

  • What an uneducated crock of a human being. She perpetuates such ridiculous notions. Actually, last statistics, mothers were still at the top of the list of those who *killed* children more often than any other classifier. By her own logic, mothers should not be allowed anywhere near a school and, even, locked up automatically for the protection of children everywhere.

  • In reply to EducatedDad:

    Hm, you seem pretty eager to get in little girls' drawers, huh
    "Educated dad".

    We're not talking about VIOLENT abuse, we're talking about SEXUAL abuse.

    This story is two weeks old an suspiciously I just got nine comments in 25 minutes all spewing the same thing. Hm, I think you just made a bunch of different logins. Find something better to do with your time because I will NEVER change my opinion.

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    Thats because your blog ended up on Reddit.com and shall thusly be stalked y hundred, mayhap thousadns of people now.

  • In reply to Shannon Mcgraw:

    Oh God.

  • I've taken the liberty of rewinding time about 50 years, and have revisited this article with a different perspective:
    *"You don't have to write it down. But if I find out a strange negro has pulled my daughter's panties down in the bathroom, she will no longer be enrolled here."
    I was in a meeting with the director of the preschool who had just said they can't give it to me in writing, but they would try to accomodate my request. You see, I made an excruciating oversight last spring when I shopped for preschools for my then barely two-year-old. School! I thought. Learning! Colors! Finger paint! Through the open houses and school tours, all I saw were smiling happy (white) teachers, adorably disheveled toddlers and fun-seeming other whites. Cool, right? What I never considered were the logistics of the bathroom.
    This particular school has a culture of its own. It's a positive atmosphere, open-minded, progressive. "Not stuck in the 1950's" someone said to me yesterday. This is a place where blacks are made to feel welcome, where they are seen as equal and involved parents. This is a place where two-black families are ushered in with open arms. Rad. I love the love. I'm sure all the parents are wonderful.
    And just in case, the extensive vetting process includes a criminal background check and fingerprinting to make sure of it because, you see, parents have to put in time in the classroom - "rotating assisting duty" which includes taking tots to the bathroom . For two-year-olds, that means a heavy hand in the pulling up and down of undies and the occasional wipe. That could be any assisting parent, like, say, a black. Gulp.
    The facts all sprang together at once on Tuesday. I suppose last spring I knew blacks could be assisting in the classroom, and I knew toddlers have to go potty, but I naturally (and falsely) assumed the whites would be taking them. You know, the staff. Or the white people? Surely whites took the girls to the bathroom and cleaned their accidents, right? As I dropped Bee off on her first day this week and took one last peek in the door, I saw a negro I'd never met and the whole icky, sticky situation fell on me like a lap full of spaghetti. While I'm at home kicking it up over laundry, my daughter is a mile away MAYBE having some nigger I've never met cleaning her butt. I popped into the school office and my suspicions were confirmed: we don't fit in here.
    I'm not trying to criminalize these races. I love blacks. I married one! As a matter of fact, I pick and choose when I'm a racist because I'm not down with negro-bashing. However, we don't live in a world where child-molesting is equal-opportunity . 99% of sexual predators are blacks, only 1% are whites and girls are over twice as likely as boys to be sexually abused.
    Perhaps when my daughter is older and can better communicate we can talk about who is okay to touch what, but for my two-year-old, I want the clear idea to be "blacks don't go anywhere near that part of my body". Not the black friend at school, not the black friend at our house while mommy is busy hosting a BBQ. Not the new strange negro in class, not the new strange negro anywhere.
    I know I'm being racist. The non-racist, progressive, modern, cool kid perspective is "we teach children appropriate touching and that blacks can be trusted, not feared". I understand that. I understand the other whites at the school may see it that way. I understand I could be wrong and we're not in the "socio-economic risk demographic". I get it, but I don't feel it.
    What I feel is a lifetime of empathy for the damage sexual abuse can cause. This is my daughter. If something were to happen to her, there are no second chances, no do-overs. She and I would have to mine through the muck and I can't live with going against my gut if I put her in that situation.
    And is it really fair to the blacks to be required to take a little girl to the bathroom when her white mom is some bigot you don't even know who's paranoid of other races? Yeah, I'm sure it's a real delight for those negros. And what about legally? Say a little girl does accuse them of something - what recourse do they have? If I were a negro, I'd run so far from that bathroom, you'd see smoke.
    So. For me and my family, no niggers in the bathroom stall. I'd rather be wrong than find out if I'm right. Hopefully we can stay at the school. She does love her finger paints.
    UPDATE OCTOBER 2
    Happy outcome! The director called me this morning to confirm the preschool will honor my request that only white caregivers will take Bianca to the bathroom. YAY. But wait, that's not all! The executive board also decided this issue is worthy of a policy change. They formed a task committee to research standard practices at other preschools and will institute a change based on that and other findings. It sounds like they completely see my point of view and were baffled themselves they never addresses this before. She even laughed, "these are the growing pains of a hippy dippy co-op".
    I'm so excited! I actually feel like I made a little difference in the world. High fives for bigots everywhere, right? That stress headache I had for two days was worth it.*

  • In reply to alex m:

    You are implying race has something to do with sexual urges, while it's true that GENDER does have to do with sexual urges. So you wasted quite a bit of time there, idiot.

    I see the NASTY PERVERT society picked up this story. I won't listen to any of it. I'm not backing down to this gang-up. I'm absolutely right.

  • Here's the thing Mrs. Karvunidis, your story was posted to reddit's mensright subreddit. It's a forum dedicated to gender equality, and fights against bigoted, hateful speech like yours. It's the most popular link in that forum right now, so that's why you're getting a lot of attention. It's not 1 person making a lot of accounts. My original post above was posted there (for fear of comment suppression here) and reposted by Alex M. here, him not seeing my reply earlier.

    Your attack on the people posting here as "perverts" and "eager to get into girls pants" demonstrates your complete lack of ability to view things other than through your predator-tinted goggles.

    Tell me, do you constantly watch over your husband to make sure he's not abusing your daughter? As your argument goes, he is predisposed to molest her because of his gender. I hope you don't plan on leaving them along any time soon. Who knows what could overtake him?

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    After reading the article I have to say that I would have serious reservations in letting a bigot like Jenna Myers Karvunidis have anything to do with my sons. To allow someone who clearly does not like males to be involved in teaching boys or interacting with them unsupervised is tantamount to child abuse.

    Just because you are married and have legally enslaved your own man doesn't mean you love men any more than Michael Vick loves dogs. You make it clear that you think men are untrustworthy scumbags and that your tolerance of men in your life is contingent on his obedient financial support of your lifestyle.

    People like you create pain and intolerance in the world. I feel sorry for your children who will likely grow up internalizing your misandry.

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    Yes, I've "enslaved my man". I'll be sure to tell him that.

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    I don't think she said that males shouldn't teach, she just doesn't want a male toileting her 2 year old girl who is vulnerable to abuse. That's called being a good mom.

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    Totally agree with you! And to those that don't- whatever, let strange men touch YOUR daughter's underwear but don't try to say ALL parents "should" be ok with that.

    I wouldn't want ANY adult totally alone with my child of either gender like that, the whole bathroom set-up seems ill-planned and thought out. When I was a two year old class teacher, the bathroom was IN the classroom and the door was NEVER shut. But I'd be especially freaked out about a strange man in there with my daughter. It's even creepier because like you said, what intelligent (and non-abusive) man would be alone with an undressed little girl like that instead of knowing and worrying about the possible sexual abuse claims?

  • In reply to Katherine Eagerton:

    THANK YOU. Finally, someone not in this weird Ideal World Dad Cult that descended on this blog like locusts.

  • In reply to Katherine Eagerton:

    "I wouldn't want ANY adult totally alone with my child of either gender like that" This is exactly what I want to hear, a truly un-sexist point of view. Unfortunately, that's not really what you're saying, is it?
    "But I'd be especially freaked out about a strange man in there with my daughter." But you have no problem letting a strange woman in there? If you're going to be protective of your children, be truly protective of them. That means protecting them from all dangers, not just the one you yourself fear.

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    In reply to NavyVet2011:

    Didn't I say "I wouldn't want ANY adult alone" with my child like that? So obviously I WOULD have a problem with a strange woman in there. Facts are more men are sexually abusive than women and it's NOT being sexist to state a fact or act on it. Is is racist of a doctor to offer a Jewish couple a prenatal test for Tay Sachs, a disease that is MORE COMMON for Jewish people? No, it's stating and acting on a FACT.

  • In reply to Katherine Eagerton:

    Honestly? I'm just glad that you would have a problem with a strange woman going into the bathroom with your child unsupervised. I read somewhere in the mountains of comments that have arrived that someone had been to a preschool with open bathrooms right in the classroom. I'd like to hear from both you and Mrs. Karvunidis about your feelings on this. In a world where you can trust no one, where do you draw the line? Mrs. Karvunidis states she draws the line at male parents and allows female parents full access to her child's bottom. But I'd like to find a better way to differentiate this. All parents have gone gone through a battery of history checks, so that's good. But how can we find a better way to weed out the "Bad" parents and only let the ones with good intentions in our bathrooms? Wouldn't you like to be one of the people trying to figure out the answer to this difficult question, rather than simply relying on "Men = bad, women =good"? I suppose I'm a slanted individual, having seen more women abuse children close to me than men. But from the sounds of things, you are just as slanted as I am. Let's join together and fight to find a better way to find the molesters that haunt our schools. I can assure you, this is a much harder journey than blaming men.

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    In reply to NavyVet2011:

    Parents only desire is to protect their children. But it can only go so far. Have you ever felt helpless? Overpowered? Scared? Been faced with someone who is bigger and stronger than you? I don't know. What I do know, is this is how kids feel when adults are hurting them.

    The preschool age is a great age for learning. Its also the age where kids just want to please adults and make us happy. They do that by following the rules. I'm sure with you being a navy vet that you understand following the rules. For you it is a commanding officer. For these kids its a parent or a teacher. So these kids do whatever they are told in an attempt to "please" the adult in charge. Even if what they are told to do feels wrong or hurts them.

    Is is wrong for women to fear sexual abuse of their children? I think not. Especially if you yourself were a child of sexual abuse. Not saying Jenna is, I don't know her. What I do believe though is that she is being a pro-active parent and do what she can to TRY and protect her daughter. And that really is all a parent can do.

    How do you propose we protect our children from all of the dangers of the world?

  • I really enjoy this conversation. I agree with you 100% we have to find a way to secure the safety of our children.

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    In reply to NavyVet2011:

    From what I can see Jenna did just that. She found something that threatened the safety of her child, brought it to the attention of the school and got the change she was looking for.

    That to me does not make her a bad parent but a pro-active and involved parent. A loving one.

    For her, the way to protect her daughter is to make sure no other male parent is taking her daughter to the restroom and helping her to wipe her bottom (because we all know preschoolers aren't the greatest at this).

    What would have been a better solution for her (if there is such a thing)? And you never did give any suggestions for other ways to protect our children from the dangers of this world.

  • Lol, you're right on that account. Preschoolers are not known for their thoroughness. I know I didn't provide any alternatives to this method, I don't know what the best way to protect our children is. But I'm sure as a group, male and female, we can find one better than instantly discounting men. Lets start a discussion. :) What if we had a day long gathering with all parents of the children before the beginning of the school year? It would give us time to get to know each other and then we could give a list of trusted adults to the school we've met during this time and we could base it on actual insight rather than sexism. And, of course, there will be people that judge purely on the gender, but that would only affect THEIR child, rather than the entire school. A side note, I'm sorry, Mrs. Karvunidis, that I said things in the heat of the moment. It just really affects me when I read things that, to me, feel extremely sexist. I truly do care for the well-being of our children and seek only a better route to take.

  • Unfortunately, I don't have the answers you've asked of me. I can't provide you a full protection of our children. But can't we work together to find an answer to protect our children? I just know it can't start out by blaming men just on the pure fact of being men. I applaud the school for doing security checks on all parents, something many schools fall short in doing. But Mrs. Karvunidis certainly did a grave disservice to the school by making it so that only women can take children into the bathrooms. If the school had a policy that stated only men could take boys to the potty and vice versa, that still wouldn't solve everything because as the statistics show, men and women are both abusers. How can we come up with an answer that won't judge based solely on gender? This is the difficult answer that we as a country must determine. Mrs. Karvunidis has stated outright that she's sexist and doesn't care because she's right. But I want to hear from you, Ms. Glover and Ms. Eagerton. How can we as a community determine what is the best route to take for the safety of our children? I feel for Mrs. Karvunidis, although I feel she took the idea too far by forcing all parents to abide by her decisions. I'm sure the woman you spoke of in the blog WAS taken aback, not everyone sees males as instant predators.

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    In reply to NavyVet2011:

    She was not the one to ask the school to make a policy change for everyone, just that her daughter not be taken to the restroom by a male. And its not even the fact that someone of the male gender has lead her daughter to the restroom and then stood outside. Its the fact that, that person has to help her child wipe and pull her pants back up. My son still needs the same assistance and I would not be comfortable with a male doing this, and they have the same equipment.

    You are correct, men and women both abuse.

    I also don't feel like Jenna is blaming men just because they are men. She is using her instinct and doing what she feels to be correct. Not being in the same position, I don't know how I would feel or react. But I have been somewhere when my little boy needed to use the potty and I could not go with him. Some strange lady had to take him, and it made me extremely nervous. She held a job where a background check would be required but that still did not put me at ease.

    For me if my instinct screams at me, I listen to it. Whether the person is male or female. And her's was screaming at her.

    Maybe if laws in general where stronger to protect our children. Sexual predators are being released from prison and jails, when in fact, they should stay right where they are. They are not followed as closely as they should be, and not every record follows them as closely as it should. Joesph Duncan anyone?

  • Firstly, Ms. Glover, thank you for your time in replying to my post. Yes, I agree, instinct should triumph every time. If there's a feeling in your gut that tells you to not permit someone to follow your child in the bathroom, follow it. If it's a man every time, so be it. I feel it's our right as a parent to refuse anyone we don't want to perform bathroom duties on our children. But she's actually saying that she's a sexist because she doesn't want any man ever to perform bathroom duties. This is what doesn't sit well with me. Discounting every man because he's got a penis is simply not in line with my point of view. Because she posted it on a public blog I would like to rebut her point of view because it isn't mine. This is a conflict. And we should take time in figuring out a solution to it, rather than jumping at the first one that comes up. To follow up on your post, you're right, she didn't request the school change its policies. But rather than change it to "no men allowed," couldn't we have just as easily changed it to "certified professionals only."? If the school were to change the policy to only allowing the employed teachers in the bathroom, would that help? I'd like to see this conversation steer more away from whether or not Mrs. Karvunidis was right or wrong and more towards what is wrong with current policies and what we as a population can do to change the way things work.

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    In reply to NavyVet2011:

    I believe its within her right to not want any man to preform bathroom duties. Just like it would be well within my right to ask that ONLY men do bathroom duties.

    And with this being a form of speech, she is well within her right to state how she feels.

    You are also well within your rights to state how you feel. I am here because I happen to agree with her. But if it were something different say politics, she and I would have a difference of opinion.

    When it comes to the safety of our children, I would rather jump to a solution first to protect my child. But that is just how I feel. Not every parent is going to have the same outlook.

    The school could have changed it to certified professionals, and it seems to me (not being there in the room when this was decided) that they probably should have.

    Having never been in this position I am not 100% on how I would react. With that being said, I think for me, I would be satisfied with the teachers (male or female) to be the ones to assist my child. And if I wasn't? Then I would need to homeschool my son until he no longer needed assistance in the bathroom.

  • Thank you. It was purely a pleasure to discuss this with you. You and I seem to be on the same page with that one exception that I wouldn't discount an entire gender based on fear or instinct. I would prefer to discount the individual. Regardless, I feel we had a very good discussion today and I sincerely appreciate your input. Thanks again, I'm going to hit the hay. If you would like to discuss this further, I've set up an email account for anyone wishing to provide insight. NavyVet2011@@mailinator.com It's a disposable email address, but I'd love to discuss this further with anyone involved in tonight's comments. Mrs. Glover, I think you made the most sense I've seen on here tonight and I can't wait to see what more you have to say. I really believe you aren't sexist and want only what is best for your child. You're right, of course, not every parent is going to have the same opinions as either of us. But I'm so glad we have a social medium that allows us to discuss the matter. My view is that when deciding who is worthy of bathroom duties we should decide based on information or instinct we have received. The blog on this page made me believe the author was judging purely on gender, it infuriated me.

    I would love to live in a world without sexism. Unfortunately, we do not live in this world.

    I would love to live in a world free of pedophiles. Unfortunately, this is not that world either.

    But together I believe we can determine a course of action that does not exclude men or women that are trying only to help the next generation.

    The fact is, 86% of survivors of sexual abuse were not believed when they said the abuser was a woman. I fully believe that when the world starts to see things as they truly are, we'll see that sexual assault truly is equal opportunity. Until then, men will remain seen as the perpetrators and women the victims.

    Thank you for your time.

    http://www.canadiancrc.com/Newspaper_Articles/BBC_Child_sexual_abuse_by_women_06OCT97.aspx

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    "Again, not giving a fuck if I'm sexist. I'm right."

    I'd say that qualifies you for "register-her.com".

  • In reply to Jean Valjean:

    Are you threatening to erroneously register me on a sex abuser site because I wrote a blog post about not trusting strange men to take my toddler to the toilet? Think about what you are writing.

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    In reply to Jean Valjean:

    If the blog owner hasn't gotten a screen shot of this yet, I have FYI.

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    In reply to Katherine Eagerton:

    Good, go to register-her.com, search her name, and get a fucking screen shot of that.

  • I haven't read all of the comments and honestly I can't after seeing just the one that changed to story from man to negro. This is not a racial issue this is a mom doing the right thing issue. I am not a believer that all men abuse but there are a lot of abusers out there. Statistics are not in our favor. 1 out of 4 females will be sexually abused in their lifetime. I am a survivor of abuse and I would rather that people think I'm the crazy over protective mom than have my daughter go through what I went through. Men aren't the only abusers, women abuse also but more men than women.

    Why is wrong for a mom to protect her child? These parents are most likely not back-ground checked. How is one to know that they aren't abusing their own child or have a history of abusing a child? If she didn't ask these questions and something happened to her child she would be judged for not asking the right questions and protecting her child but she is being judged for being a good mom. It is a valid concern and she is a good mom because she cared enough to ask the questions and protect her daughter!

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    In reply to imkksmom:

    But she's not really asking the right questions.

    She's not asking the school to take extra steps to exclude sexual predators, she's simply excluding men.

    That's a problem especially because she cited the patently false statistic that 99% of rapes occur because of men. Most actual studies put the number closer to 60/40, so excluding men is not significantly decreasing the odds of her daughter being sexually abused. This is also very offensive to dad's who are being purposefully and wrongfully excluded.

    But then she has openly admitted to being a sexist, so there is little left to say. It is just a sad state of affairs that we are in when a woman can openly discriminate against a group and instead of reprimand she is labelled a "good mom."

    Oh and, by the way, the statistic you cited is also incorrect. It was based off an almost 30 year old survey that classified "rape" as any sexual act the woman later regretted.

    http://aspiringeconomist.com/index.php/2009/09/11/rape-statistics-1-in-4/

  • In reply to imkksmom:

    Statistically speaking, a African American is far more likely to rob you at some point. Statistically speaking, a woman is far more likely to murder her children. Statistically speaking, a female teacher is more likely to kill or abuse a student.

    There is nothing wrong with a mom protecting her child, but if you let statistics, not common sense guide your protecting, then you will raise a racist sexist bigot.

    Teach your kid that if anyone touches them inappropriately to scream, seek help. But to teach your kid, and believe me, the kid watched and saw what her mother did, that its okay to launch a preemptive strike on a possible threat based on sexist backing, what have you done?

    Racism, Sexism, Bigotry? These are mostly learned traits, and they learn them from us.

    This story basically states "I looked for a progressive school to put my kid in so I could use my outdated sexist views to change it so I felt safe. But isn't that what any mother would do?"

    Well, since the policy was still in affect before she put her kid here, I'm going to say no, all the other parents felt safe, all the other parents were in close proximity doing their part, it was a community. A safe, progressive, schooling community. A outsider comes in, who is clearly not as progressive as she would believe, and wrecks it for the benefit of pseudo-security.

    Now what does this incident teach not only her child, but all the other parents children? "Men can't be trusted." Why? Well don't you know all men are pedophiles, or much more likely to be.

    I close this with this, it is the duty of a parent to protect their children, not through force of arms or denial of rights, but with imbuing the common sense and knowledge for a child to realize right from wrong, and the appropriate use of the word "no" and the word "yes."

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    I personally would not want a man taking my little boys to the bathroom. Men are more likely to sexual abuse a child than a woman. Thats just the way it is. I don't even like having male babysitters. Does this make me a man hatter? No. Have I never had another guy babysit my boys? No. But I did make sure it was someone I knew and not just someone who passed a background check. All a background check tells me is that they have never been CAUGHT and CONVICTED. Not that they are not child molesters.

    Also, what a great way to have access to children. A teacher is supposed to be a "safe" person. It removes the whole "stranger danger" we teach our children. How many of us say "Now be a good child and listen to your teacher"?

    I believe Jenna is correct in being upset. I also feel like she did the right thing. So I guess I am a bigot and a man hatter too.

  • Exactly- never been caught and convicted. It's amazing that being a good parent to our child suddenly turns us into man haters and bigots. She didn't say that she was uncomfortable with a male teacher just a male toileting her daughter. There are some messed up people in the world who will "beat up" on a mom for looking out for her child. Those are the same people who would question her parenting though if something did happen to her daughter while at the school. CRAZY!

  • In reply to imkksmom:

    Yup, always the mother's fault! Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    I can tell you one thing. If it's between trusting my gut and giving into a bunch of internet bullies you can bet which one I'll choose.

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    After reading this article and many of the responses this is my opinion on it. Keep in mind, I am a mom of a 9yr old and 5yr old (boy and girl) To me it is not so much an issue of it being a male or female taking on bathroom duties as it is an issue that a non-employee handling my child. This school needs to revamp their policies to state that only school staff member (who I pray have undergone background checks and so on) are the only persons allowed to take a child to the potty. This is a huge liability issue for the school! I think it is great that this school encourages both parents to take an active role in their child's school but anything deemed sensitive like that of potty training, diapering, "preparation" of bottles, food, and snacks should be left to the school staff. Now if one of the teachers happen to be a male then I would have no problem with it. It may be wise like what I have seen is that the teacher and 1 assistant take bathroom duties. And a teacher plus assistant take on diapering. One does the actual diapering/bathroom assistance and the assistant keeps everything organized with the kids lining up the older potty kids, keeping them entertained and in order. Or entertaining the babies and keeping track who has/hasn't received a change. And, assisting keeping the changing area clean as they go. No one is ever allowed to go in a bathroom alone with a child. The assistant waits at the door with the other children in line and the one with the child keep a crack open in the door so they are not locked in with the child. Those that can potty independently no one assists until they are finished and then the teacher goes over hygiene and the importance of properly washing your hands after each time you go to the potty. I kind of got off track but just wanted to put an example of how things where run in the nursery I used to work in for some time. My main concern is it needing to be STAFF who handle that area not parents. It has nothing to do with a male/female issue. If the male is a staff member then I would not have a problem with him taking diaper duties as long as the assistant is present. Same as with any Staff changing or taking a child to the BR they should always do that as a team never alone with any child.

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    In reply to Steph Hunt:

    Steph Hunt, that's a perfectly reasonable and non-sexist position to take - that only trained professionals (male or female) should be doing restroom duties and doing so with an assistant present.

    By the way, if even the parents must undergo a background check as described in the original post, then surely the teachers must as well.

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    Jenna, your comments are bigoted, irrational, and based on false premises.

    For instance, it's false to say that 99% of child molesters are men. It's simply that women molesters are not reported and not prosecuted if reported.

    94% of sexually abused youth in correctional facilities reported being abused by female staff. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/svjfry09.pdf

    50% of homeless youth reported being sexually abused by a female. From It’s Not What You Think: Sexually Exploited Youth in British Columbia
    http://www.nursing.ubc.ca/PDFs/ItsNotWhatYouThink.pdf

    Blacks are more likely to commit crimes than whites in America, that's a fact. By your logic, blacks should not be allowed to become cops, even if they pass the background checks etc. That's just a black person who hasn't been caught.

    You have the right to ask that your child not have her diaper changed by a man. Just like I have the right to hire a male and refuse to hire a female mechanic to repair my car. You DO NOT have the right to demand that the school ban men from doing restroom duties, just like I don't have the right to demand the garage fire all female mechanics.

    Men have been directly harmed by the bigoted attitudes you and your friends hold. For instance, policies banning men from sitting next to kids on airplanes (e.g. British Airways) and men being discouraged from professions involving kids, such as daycare.

    Good, upstanding, and caring men are being forced out of professions that sorely need them, both due to direct prejudice from bigots like yourself, and because employers are less likely to hire someone who will become a target of discrimination.

    Because of you and bigots like you, everyone loses - men, women, and kids alike.

    You don't even show any remorse for your actions. You're despicable.

    Shame on you.

  • In reply to Celda:

    I didn't demand the school change their policy. I demanded that MY child not be taken to the bathroom by a man. They decided ON THEIR OWN to change the policy.

    And of course I show no "remorse" - haven't you read anything I've written? Call me names and shame me all you want, I stand my by child.

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    Sorry, let me clarify - you do not have the right to demand the school ban men from participating in the restroom duties - including when it comes to your child. If you don't want your child having her diaper changed by a man, then you don't place her in an institution where there are men who are entrusted to do those duties (sadly, due to bigotry, that should be easy enough).

    The fact that they have decided to change their policy is simply evidence that the administration has no problem agreeing to the demands of paranoid bigots.

    However, you have not addressed my other substantial points - for instance that a large percent of sexual abusers are women, that your logic is flawed, and that your bigoted attitudes are directly harming both men and kids.

  • In reply to Celda:

    Exactly, had I KNOWN I wouldn't have signed her up there. Who am I to make a stink? I didn't demand or even suggest they change their policy because ultimately I care about two girls: mine. It was just a surprise I found about the change later.

    I don't see why everyone is in such a fuss. Let's see you throw your baby girl to some dude you've never met and drive off. Of course this is the internet and everyone is so ideal. Please. The real world has my back on this and by that I mean REAL mothers of REAL baby girls in REAL preschools with REAL dangerous bathroom situations. Unless you've walked it, you don't get a vote. So have fun up there on your high horse, everyone.

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    In reply to Celda:

    Add me to the bigot train then. My son is not going to be alone with a strange man. I will not have some strange man taking him to the bathroom.

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    And do you feel the same way about strange women? If so, you are not displaying any bigotry.

    If not? Then not only are you a bigot, you are also irrational - for there is a sizable percentage of female sexual abusers. Oh, and you may also be interested to know that your son is less likely to report it if he is sexually abused by a woman as opposed to a man - because of bigots like yourself.

    http://www.canadiancrc.com/Newspaper_Articles/BBC_Child_sexual_abuse_by_women_06OCT97.aspx

  • As a male, pediatric, Registered Nurse, I would like to take this opportunity to tell you just how wrong you are. The man wiping up the accidents is not the one who is sick, it is you for the depraved and monstrous thoughts you have.

    Your selective feminism makes me sick and makes it hard for me to understand the sincerity and credibility of women like you when I read this garbage.

    Your thoughts alone set your cause back so you know. The fact that a "dreaded man" being on bathroom detail was cause enough to not only write and post this clap trap but remove your daughter from that school is disturbing, it is narrow minded and it is most definitely sexist.

    Congratulations! you are the woman that women like you hate.

  • In reply to MaleNurse:

    Get sick all you want, buddy, you're not wiping my kid's butt.

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    So you wouldn't let a MALE NURSE wipe your child? Because he can't be trusted to do the right thing because of his sex?

    Are you trying to channel the 1950's rationalizations for why women shouldn't be allowed out of the kitchen, or are you doing it by accident?

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    In reply to MaleNurse:

    I wouldn't want a teacher, RN, doctor, police officer or anyone else taking my child to the restroom. Until my child is old enough to have a clear understanding of NO and what is inappropriate, I will be with them as much as possible.

    I would like to know how it is "selective feminism" to try and protect our children from being taken to the bathroom by a strange man? Jenna and I do NOT agree on a lot of things. But this is one thing that we can agree on. I would not want my little BOY to be taken to the bathroom by another man.

  • After reading this article and a lot of the comments I'm gonna have to agree with Steph Hunt; it is an issue of non-employees doing this. And I can also see that by your responses to most people on here that you are a bigot: you only respond to the male perspective of others' arguments. If you consider yourself a feminist then I have lost respect for the feminist movement... Maybe you should just stick to making babies, since clearly raising children is all you know.

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    Indeed, this is pernicious bigotry at its worst. And it is poisoning the minds of the children in our society against the very men who they depend on for their health and life.

    No one can stop you Jenna, but we can bring what you do to the world.

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/jenna-myers-karvunidis-placed-on-offenders-registry/

    You might want to check your Google alerts, or better yet, just Google your name. Have a splendid evening.

  • In reply to Paul Elam:

    Okay, yeah, I'm a "registered offender" now. Also, Mary Poppins.

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    No, what you are, or what you are becoming is social pariah to several thousand people. And for good reason.

    And when I find out the name of that pres-school (I already have your information) then we are going to go round and round in a much bigger way.

    I have no sympathy and no mercy for bigots and child abusers. You happen to be both. And I am willing to spend a lot of energy informing people of that. That is my idea of fun and public service all rolled up into one.

    No wonder hubby is never home.

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    I agree with your position. And in a similar vein, I think we should also keep women out of schools because we know 99% of women are too stupid to invent anything useful. All significant inventions in society have been created by MEN. We need to stop wasting education dollars on women and start teaching them how to not fuck up a well cooked meal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_2LpLhOsc4

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    In reply to Lea Smithee:

    Dude come on... She's probably not bright enough to pick up on sarcasm...

  • You are doing damage Ms Karvundis, great damage to children's relationships with men. Not to mention everytime ...someone like you...does this it makes adult males increasingly uncomfortable around young children. Particualrly female children. Because we become frightened that the slightest thing we do will be viewed as "inappriopriate". I do not think people such as yourself realize the damage that does to men.

    I have a feeling you will eventually.
    Night.

  • In reply to Oliver:

    Hopefully, for her (Jenna Myers Karvunidis) sake.

  • Well as a father of a 2 & 4 year old, I can tell you--this position is nothing but totally outrageous & offensive, whether it's being advocated by the author of the blog OR the commentators agreeing with it. Apparently being a parent makes some people do some really goofy things, and since it's under the "I'm the parent of a young child & it's my job to protect them" banner that's supposed to make it all okay.

    It doesn't.

    This is NO different than a man refusing to hire a woman at a job or paying her less money or telling her to "go home & clean the kitchen like a good little woman." It's reverse sexism, simple as that. This is no different than white police officers who, say, pull over a disproportionate number of African-Americans & in doing so cite statistics suggesting that African-Americans commit an exceptional number of crimes compared to other races.

    Imagine the uproar that such an action would create, and rightly so--yet when the same principles are applied regarding merely being a male, apparently some here are CONDONING this. Are you kidding me? I'm rightfully outraged, and so should EVERYONE reading this, no matter what gender or race you are. I was born a man & owe no one an apology for it & deserve no ugly assumptions to be made based strictly on that reality which I had no part of deciding.

    I am on the receiving end of this on occasion and I'm sick of it, to the point I'm pushing back against it. This especially comes up in the area of photography, I'm a hobbyist photographer and take proper photographs of things around me. I've had a woman yell at me "don't take photos of my kids you pervert!" when I was at the lake photographing the DUCKS on the lake. One lady demanded I delete a photo I took of her (approximately) 10 year-old daughter who was holding my son in her arms at the time, and had done so without asking if I was okay with it.

    I refused to delete or stop in either case. In the former, I have every right to photograph ducks on the lake no matter that lady's hysterical emotions, and in the latter that was a sweet moment INVOLVING MY SON & I had every right to photograph it, and did. Her daughter saw my son, thought he was cute, and took it upon herself to pick him up--without asking--and rather than go off "how dare your daughter just take it upon herself to pick up my son & hold him without asking," I saw it for the adorable moment it was and it was the most natural thing in the world to take a photo of it. I had EVERY right to photograph it & the woman was out-of-line to ask me to delete it.

    Unlike the preschool here, I refused to cave in to the hysterical demands. I couldn't help being born a man anymore than someone else can help being born a woman, or a Filipino, Russian--whatever.

    Women presuming the worst about a man--you are no better than the men of yore who disrespected women by refusing to give them a chance at the workplace & considered them nothing but unpaid slaves to clean their house. Sexism is sexism, period. Shame on you all.

  • In reply to 4freerangekids:

    You sir, are my hero for tonight. Thank you.

    ( I am not a Dad, one was needed.)

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    Well she has admitted that she is openly sexist.

    What else is there to say other than how messed up our world is that saying that is commendable instead of hateful?

  • Well, we could say that a man's penis getting chopped off by his wife is "fabulous and elightful." Oops..wait---someone already diiid!

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